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davo
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PostSubject: Re: Manchester Arena attack   Tue May 23, 2017 7:17 pm

bombers never accept blame surely??
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Mart
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PostSubject: Re: Manchester Arena attack   Tue May 23, 2017 8:03 pm

It's early days and I expect News will come out about what happened, what didn't happen or shouldn't have happened. On reflection, it's probably wrong to assess matters just yet.

Maybe it is possible to try to put ourselves in the position of those who lost family Sad but also possible to put ourselves in the position of a security man ..who might also be a family man. I wonder if he will have a sense of failure that could last a lifetime, even though he wasn't responsible for the deaths and injuries. It must be hard to bear if people say his/her best wasn't good enough when their best was being given.
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davo
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PostSubject: Re: Manchester Arena attack   Tue May 23, 2017 11:46 pm

well we have no evidence their best was being given to those who died or were injured - as you said - perhaps to early to lay blame. We have a case in OZ were a deranged islamic guy held hostages in a sydney cafe for hrs - the police response at the formal inquiry was " we wont storm the cafe UNLESS he kills someone - he did kill two people then the police stormed in - they are now being heavily crucified by family and friends of the deceased for taking this stance. Police and security get slack the same as the rest of us at times
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Galty
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PostSubject: Re: Manchester Arena attack   Thu May 25, 2017 8:52 pm

This seems to be more sophisticated

Talk of a network.

Visits to other countries in the past.

Think this is the beginning to an orginsed campaigne
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davo
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PostSubject: Re: Manchester Arena attack   Thu May 25, 2017 10:41 pm

I see you have the same problem with your police as we have with ours but it doesn't comfort the bereaved does it?


police incompetence?
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Mart
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PostSubject: Re: Manchester Arena attack   Fri May 26, 2017 9:54 am

Nothing helps the bereaved.

The Police/Security services didn't prevent this massacre but as said, they are reported to prevent many. Even though alerts were given about this bomber, what can the Police/Security services do after that? As the law stands at present in many countries, people can't be detained unless they actually do something wrong.

A suspected terrorist can be kept an eye on but there are plenty of others who also need the same. It isn't possible to track every move all of them make, although I'd agree it would be good if that could happen. One Policeman to monitor one 'person' who might perform a terrorist attack. Not a viable solution and a reason why some bombers will get through. I know there will always be the feeling that more could have been done but we are only armchair security people and Police. The problems would probably become more apparent if we were real security people and Police.

One way the situation could be resolved is internment. Then people can be detained without actually committing a crime. Perhaps this would cause more problems than it solves but it might have prevented the Manchester bombing.
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PostSubject: Re: Manchester Arena attack   Fri May 26, 2017 10:04 am

Internment would just add more fuel to the fire. 
It did not work in Northern Ireland, just rallied more to the cause, unfortunately.
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davo
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PostSubject: Re: Manchester Arena attack   Fri May 26, 2017 1:23 pm

the police apparently were constantly advised about this guy and did nothing about him -we are too soft and because of that people die
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Mart
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PostSubject: Re: Manchester Arena attack   Fri May 26, 2017 1:40 pm

Once the Police had been advised about him, what should they (or could they) have done since, at that time, he'd committed no crime?
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PostSubject: Re: Manchester Arena attack   Fri May 26, 2017 1:48 pm

constant surveillance - stop excusing the police - they have already admitted they failed FGS!
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Mart
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PostSubject: Re: Manchester Arena attack   Fri May 26, 2017 1:59 pm

I could argue that davo but you are getting angry with me, so I'm not going to. Needless to say we are both upset by the atrocity but think differently regarding the reasons for the failure to stop it.
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PostSubject: Re: Manchester Arena attack   Fri May 26, 2017 3:03 pm

I am no getting angry at all i can assure you - the police have admitted their error - they are accountable and people have died - thats all! this I believe could have been avoied
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PostSubject: Re: Manchester Arena attack   Fri May 26, 2017 3:43 pm

In a way i am pleased about this.

Muslims in are communtey came forwade and reported him over a 5 year period.

The police did not follow it up but would have had some dater on him.

What I am pleased is the Muslims came forward and reported him.

Think that shows we of different faiths can live together.
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